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sharpton. >>> thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, governor romney is getting by on a zing and a prayer with just 36 days to go, things are getting desperate for team romney. the bad news keeps piling up. the latest swing state polls show him trailing the president by 11 points. 11. fox business is reporting that romney is losing donors to republican house and senate candidates. they are moving their money because they think he's going to lose. so much for the liberal media bias. that was a fox report. even conservatives are arguing that this wednesday's debate is do or die. >> you just heard paul ryan say that romney will offer the country a clear choice of two different economic futures. is that what romney needs to do wednesday? is that enough? >> well, i think it would be good to just win the debate. that's my advice to governor romney and it's time to begin panicking a little bit. >> time to begin panicking? but don't worry, governor romney has a solution. zingers. the "new york times" reports that mr. romney's team has concluded that debates are about cre
that is outside the margin of error. for governor romney, time that cruel, cruel mistress is slipping away. early voting begins in ohio next tuesday. can he win without the state? if history is any judge no republican in history has won without ohio. according to the latest nbc news battleground map the president is expected to get 243 electoral votes to romney's 191. with eight tossup states. obama win in ohio with its 18 electoral votes would put him at 261 electoral votes, that is just nine away from winning re-election. surprising exactly no one ohio has been a top focus for candidates. while governor romney logged 17 trips to the state this election cycle president obama is making his 13th visit this year alone. earlier this month the democratic ticket made clear just how much ohio means to them. >> if we win ohio, we win the election. >> if we win toledo, we will win ohio. and if we win ohio we'll win this election. >> john heilemann, there has been no shortage of love for the state of ohio this election cycle. president obama and mitt romney both speaking at 1:05 today. i wonder your take
it was. >>> we begin this friday with no shortage of confidence from mitt romney even as his ineptember draws to a close with more bad news for the republican nominee. this time it's in the form of nine polls in nine battleground states with the president leading all nine. now, in britain 999 is the number to call for the emergency services, and mr. romney might consider doing the same with the president now leading nine swing states by an average of six points consistent with his national average. the three newest battleground polls show yet more evidence of mr. romney's september slump. north carolina, the president up by two. nevada, the president up by two. even new hampshire, site of one of mr. romney's many luxury homes, the president leading by seven points. but what about all that jet skiing? well, never fear, mitt's hard at work doing what he does best, attending a fund-raiser today at philadelphia's union club. here it is, looks quite posh. i guess it should be at $50,000 a plate. wait a minute, no, sorry, that's wrong. that's a mistake. that was actually from "trading places,
never quit and quitters never win. good afternoon, it's friday, september the 28th. and mitt romney really does think he's going to win this thing. mitt and friends, do they know something we don't know? >> i'm going to win pennsylvania and i'm going to become the next president of the united states. we're going to win. there's no question in my mind. we're going to begin. if instead i know -- instead, when i become president. i'm going to become the next president. >> i believe if the election were held today, romney would win by four or five points. >> no, they don't. they're just caught up in the margin of anger. >> half the country is simply uninformed. they don't know anything. >> they believe they're entitled. >> that doesn't add up to much, governor. >> lap dog liberals. >> the left based mainstream media. >> has the obama campaign ep gauged in character assassinati assassination. >> oh sure. >> i'm not familiar with precisely exactly what i said but i stand by what i said whatever it was. >>> we begin this friday with no shortage of confidence from mitt romney even as his in
is it? >> it's "morning joe." >> i say what people are thinking. >>> the buckeye barnstorm. mitt romney hopes to make noise in ohio to stir up support in a key state. meanwhile, president obama hopes to hear the sound of violence. what he says about the mideast turmoil besides bumps in the roads will be worth watching. education nation. nbc news is hosting leaders from across the country for a forum on the future of our schools. we'll talk to castro about what's working in his town. and 12 years into the war in afghanistan, find out what the top u.s. commander has to say about that country's future. good morning. this is "the daily rundown". i'm chuck todd. we're just outside the education nation summit at the new york public library where msnbc news is playing host to leaders from around the country. this hour we're going to hear from the keynote speaker. but first. let's get to my first read of the morning. mitt romney will campaign more aggressively in battleground states this week than we've seen in a while. beginning today in colorado and then crisscrossing ohio on crucial bus tour
on romney. president piled on, turning his own gaffes into laugh lines. >> i want to see us export more jobs. export more products. excuse me. ( laughter ) i was-- i-- i was channeling my opponent there for a second. ( laughter ) >> schieffer: and advice and constellations. >> there are 40 days left until the election. obama cowl make a gaffe. mitt would win the debates, go could send a flood to destroy all mankind. ( laughter ) so there's hope. >> schieffer: short of building an ark, what is romney's best chance. we'll ask new jersey governor chris christie, and one-time adversary, newt gingrich. so far romney is sticking to a familiar theme, but does he need to do more? >> i will lower the tax rate. he wants to creat to raise them. i'll create jobs and he'll kill them. also marsha blackburn, bob shrum, and larry sabato from the university of virginia center for politics. as we head into first presidential debate, we'll talk about the state of america at home and abroad with the distinguished panel. michelle rhee, former head of the washington, d.c. school system and founder of students
washington," mitt romney's rough ride. the fight for ohio. >> you may have noticed that there is an electn in ohio. >> we are going to win. >> the foreign policy debate. >> i was certain and continue to be certain that there will be bombs on the road. >> "bumps in the road"? we had an ambassador assassinated. >> rare bipartisan agreement. >> did you guys watch the packers game last night? i mean, give me a break. it is time to get the real refs. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> it has been a rough couple of weeks for mitt romney. the president has opened up leads and a battleground states like ohio, wisconsin, iowa, colorado. you would of thought that the assassination of an american ambassador in libya, attacks on embassies elsewhere in the middle eas would have offered mitt romney a golden opportunity to reframe the debate, but he cannot get their. politico began a piece on friday telling us with the problem is not -- it is not clint eastwood and the empty chair, or media bias, or distorted polls. politico says idt is mitt. >> wow. quite a guy, isn't i
room." >>> happening now, just two days before the first obama/romney debate and our new cnn national poll shows the president's lost, lost his post-convention bounce. but there's a different story in the battleground states. >>> mitt romney could make a huge impact on the supreme court. how he could change the direction of the court for decades. >>> they make $10 a day to put their lives on the line. but they could lose their job ifs they don't lose some weight. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >>> we're now just 36 days from the presidential election and nationally our brand-new cnn/orc poll of likely voters shows the race between president obama and governor romney remaining up for grabs. the president leads 50% to 47%. but his three-point margin is within the poll's sampling error. our chief national correspondent john king is in denver getting ready for the debate over there. that's the site of the debate. john, take us into these numbers. what are you seeing? >> reporter: well, wolf, i can tell you this, talking to senior officials in the romney campaign, they b
at the oh corral. president obama and governor romney are hngueli spes ie bye e. chicago has the edge. the president up by ten minutes in a survey by quinn pe yak and cbs news and leading eight points in poll by "the washington post." these polls mirror an advantage president obama held in ohio in the polls last week, worth ng the president has a lead that is outside the margin of error. for governor romney, time that cruel, cruel mistress is slipping away. early voting begins in ohio next esday. can he win without the state? ifis age no republican in history has won without ohio. according to the latest nbc news battleground map the president is expected to get 243 electoral votes to romney's 191. with eight tossup states. ecl votes would put him at 261 electoral votes, that is just nine away from winning re-election. surprising exactly no one ohio has been a top focus for candidates. while governor romney logged 17 trips to the state this election s visit this year alone.ing earlier this month the democratic ticket made clear just how much ohio means to them. >> if we win ohio, we w
>> jennifer: our little rhyme was on ham -- an homage to another video. >> vote for romney is a vote to let planned parenthood get cut. >> listen to your little sister. wake the [ bleep ] up! >> jennifer: some voters aren't getting the message. iowa, one of the 32 states with early voting opened its polling stations and lines went around the block! there are good signs for the president there. the des moines register reported that as of monday, registered democrats in iowa had requested 109,000 absentee ballots. republicans had requested 20,000. people registered to other parties or no party requested 36,000. that's good news for the democrats. there are more signs. swing states including iowa are moving further into the democrat's column according to new data from top political analyst larry sabato. but that news is just not sitting well with republicans. they've started pushing the idea that those polls are at best, wrong. and at worst rigged! romney senior campaign adviser ed gillespie suggested he do
with the national debt and that mitt romney can. >> as a result of the president's advocation of leadership, as a result of seeing the most predictable economic crisis in our country's history and not fixing it, our credit rating was downgraded for the first time in our history. when mitt romney was governor, the credit rating of his state was upgraded. that's the kind of change that we'll get with a mitt romney presidency. >> governor scott walker, republican from wisconsin, is also in new hampshire today, stumping on behalf of the romney campaign. earlier today, he spoke at the state's gop convention. meanwhile, today, vice president joe biden is in florida. he wrapped up an event in ft. myers not long ago, where he said mitt romney and paul ryan will block any bipartisan attempts to reduce the debt. >> paul ryan even voted against the simpson/bowles plan he talked about now, as a member of the commission. it's important to know why. because they will not vote for a single solitary reduction in the debt if it includes one dollar in new taxes for millionaires. >> neither governor romney no
-point leads in nevada and north carolina. virginia could be the bellwether. both the president and mitt romney campaigned there yesterday, and the latest poll shows the president with with a slight edge. let me bring in perry bacon and susan. good to see both of you. good morning. >> good morning. >> i'm sure you saw what charles cr krauthhammer wrote this morning. make the case and go large. it might just work and it's not too late. what do you think, susan? does mitt romney need to take risks and go big? >> one thing is for sure. the debate this week in denver on wednesday is a big deal for the romney campaign. he has to make his case, and he has to mak his case he's a better candidate than barack obama. he has to throw some punches. he can't just kind of go in there sort of apologetically and be very gentle with obama. he has to really throw some punches and show people why he's the better candidate. i think a lot of these polls are a little bit overstated. i think the democrats have been oversampled in a lot of polls, and i don't think there's that huge of a gap between romney and obama. n
the romney campaign. he has to make his case, and he has to make his case he's a better candidate than barack obama. he has to throw some punches. he can't just kind of go in there sort of apologetically and be very gentle with obama. he has to really throw some punches and show people why he's the better candidate. i think a lot of these polls are a little bit overstated. i think the democrats have been oversampled in a lot of polls, and i don't think there's that huge of a gap between romney and obama. nonetheless, he has to make a really strong stand in the first debate. this is probably the most important debate for him at this point in the campaign. >> i don't want to let that statement about polls go unanswered. eugene robinson's piece today is about what he calls the new conspiracy. republicans diluted that there are skewed polls. paul ryan was the latest one to join on the bandwagon last night talking about wisconsin. >> i don't believe that particular poll. i won't get into the methodologies about it. >> they weren't talking about a specific poll in na statement, which so
>>> mitt romney has campaigned as many things this election cycle, governor, olympics chair, ceo, and he's now added one more gig to his resume, human pretzel. it's thursday, september 27th and this is "now." >>> joining me today, favorite impoverty from the united kingdom, msnbc political analyst richard wolffe, former adviser to hillary clinton, deputy new york city city mayor howard wolfson, politico senior political reporter lois romano and bloomberg editor, josh tyrangiel. president obama and governor romney are chasing each other's shadows. for the second day in a row conditions are scheduled to have dueling rallies in the same swing state. today's rallies each in virginia. the president is running a little bit late. president obama's campaign responding to romney's new straight to camera ad with one of its own a two-minute living room pitch airing in seven states. >> during the last weeks of the campaign, there will be debates, speeches, and more ads. but if i could sit down with you, in your living room or around the kitchen table, here's what i'd say -- when i took offic
. ♪ >> in 2012 nothing has been off limits in liberals. they accused mitt romney of being a felon a tax cheat even a murderer. president obama and his allies have taken the politics of division to new levels this election cycle. what we have seen in recent months is the president's willingness to play ggiarize th worst attributes of democratic candidates in the past like john kerry. like al gore barack obama is willing to look into the camera and distort any and all facts to woifrn voters. we are going to demonstrate how the 2012 obama play book is nothing short of the ultimate highlight real of the desperate methods long utilized by democrats in the past from class warfare to the race card we are going to cover it all. we are going to begin with the less most offensive scare tactics aimed at frightening you to support president obama. >>> you don't have any fresh ideas you use scare tactics to get voters. if you don't have a platform you paint one to run from. >> in his own words reads like a prophetic description of his 2012 el leksz campaign. >> if you reject the notion that our government
on the turmoil in the middle east. also, mitt romney talking aid, trade and more drilling down on foreign policy. we're going to hear what he's saying. and the news many homeowners have been waiting for years to hear. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >>> a brief break from the verbal sparring, the white house race. president obama stepped back in the global spotlight in new york today addressing the united nations assembly. he spoke at length about the turmoil in the middle east touting diplomacy and coalition building as the solution to the crisis to the region that's been vexing his administration. jessica yellin is traling with the president in new york. jessica, give us an update. what did the president say? >> reporter: wolf, when the president spoke here he had two major audiences, a global audience and a domestic audience. voters listening now to foreign policy issues with a new ear and a new eye after this violence in libya. and the president addressing it all just six weeks out from the election. at the united nations, president obama used the world stage to declare. >>
afghanistan. >> yeah. >> really the president as well. certainly not mitt romney. we've got people stationed, men and women, stationed in afghanistan and they're not talking about the war. you did a great segment on that last night. >> at least a long segment. 68 -- >> for good reasons. >> 68,000 americans who are really incredibly talented, incredible resources for our country, people in the prime of their lives risking their lives every day right now and in 2004, in that presidential campaign, we were at war and george w. bush and john kerry fought it out every day about the war. in 2008 we were at war, and barack obama and john mccain fought it out every day in that war. this week when the financial crisis was absolutely on fire, at that debate, they were talking about the wars. this year, president obama does bring it up, he does bring it up at most of his stump speeches, how he explains what he has done and planning on doing talking about the two wars. he doesn't have to say much more because he's speaking to an empty room. the romney campaign has no identifiable position on afghanistan
>> in 2012 nothing has been off limits in liberals. iney accused mitt romney of and although many of the lines ofax attack have hadley been ud by the left in the past nd his have taken the politics of division to new levels this election cycle. what we have seen in recent months is the president's willingness to play ggiarize th worst attributes of democratic candidates in the past like john kerry. like al gore barack obama is willing to look into the camera and distort any and all facts to woifrn voters. we are going to demonstrate how the 2012 obama play book is nothing short of the ultimate highlight real of the desperate methods long utilized by democrats in the past from class warfare to the race card we are going to cover it all. we are going to begin with the less most offensive scare tactics aimed at frightening you to support president obama. >>> you don't have any fresh ideas you use scare tactics to get voters. if you don't have a platform you paint one to run from. >> in his own words reads like a prophetic description of his 2012 el leksz campaign. >> if you reject th
-- the first debate is wednesday night in denver. mitt romney in the mile high city tonight for a predebate rally. surrogate chris christie set expectations mile high claiming wednesday night is yet another restart of the romney campaign. >> governor romney's going to lay out his vision for a better and greater america for greater opportunity for all of our citizens and i think that's when you're going it see this race really start to tighten and then move in governor romney's direction. come thursday morning the narrative of this race is going to change. >> romney has been preparing with senator rob portman who filled in as obama during john mccain's 2008 prep. the president practicing with jor kerry playing the role of romney. kerry is a good fit since the parallels between his '04 and current one is overwhelming. can romney get the post-debate bounce kerry did in '04 and take it one step further and turn it into something kerry couldn't do eight years ago. in '04 president bush had a six-point lead before the debates but kerry's performance boosted him tying the men for the final debate
debate prep. they have john kerry playing mitt romney. >> wow, john kerry? john had some questions. you think that's a good idea? >> i think it's a great idea. >> i think tmitt romney has to frame the terms of this debate before october 3rd. september has been a september to forget. he needs to change the dynamic of this race before then. >> i'm sure we'll be talking more about it all this week. >>> tomorrow on "starting point" new york giants star wide receiver vikt tctor cruise willn us. director and actress penny marshall. she's got a memoir out. we'll talk to her. >>> "cnn newsroom" with carol costello begins now. >> stories we're watching right now in the "newsroom." >> do you fear that war is imminent? >> the united nations has a warning for the iranian president. cool it. but mahmoud ahmadinejad already has strong words for israel as he gears up for his big speech in new york city. >>> a dramatic search for survivors on one of the world's highest mountains. now rescue crews are deciding whether they'll be able to find any more survivors. >>> high school students in new york
. >>> romney just released an ad in which, for the fst time he speaks directly to camera. in all thether adsyou don't utr hce a see g t thecamera him walking around. the goal is to show he does care about americans who are struggling financially. he does a pretty good job with it. >> it many americans are struggling to find work in today's economy. too many of those whore payc.ng are liaycheck to acare ling in poverty than when president obama took office. and 15 million more are on food stamps. my plan will create 12 million new jobs over the next four years. we shoul'teasure compassion by how many pele are on wee. hosuomio by how many people are able to get off welfare and get a good paying job. i'm mitt romney, and i approved this message. >> i think that ad just makes my odorning, it's thursday, september 27th, as you take a look at a wet times square in new york city. i'm in chicago this morning, but with us in new york city wh willie geist, our national affairs editor for "new york" magazine andnbit analyst, john heilemann. also former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst
to see is who is mitt romney, what kind of a president is he going to be and what are the choices thatha particular debate and all the debates. what we're going to tell the people, the whole campaigning where we are as a country, where we need to go. how to rebuild the economy and make the middle class secure. >> harris: fox report, how the nominees are preparing right now. and they make the decisions that affect americans now and for generations to come. the nine supreme court justices headed back to the bench less than 24 hours from now, to settle some of the most divisive issues in our country. in minutes, what's at shake. also, riding along on the final leg of a cross country journey to honor our fallen heroes and the families they left behind. celebrate, mission complete. ♪ we begin tonight with what could very well be a defining moment of the 2012 presidential election. the first the debate between the men who want a lead america three days away. governor romney hunkered down in washington on final debate preparation and president obama on the campaign trail in the swing state of
mitt romney and barack obama will be virtually invisible today. why, you ask? well, they're hunkering town for wednesday's debate and a chance to deliver that made for tv moment that will have us all talking. after all, debate zingers are an american tradition. >> i'm counting on you. i'm counting on the fact that when the american people focus and push aside all the noise and all the nonsense and they remember the fact that all of us, whatever success we've achieved, we've achieved because we worked together. because we made sure everybody -- >> here you go again. >> i want you to know that also i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> senator, i served with jack kennedy. i knew jack kennedy. jack kennedy was a friend of mine. senator, you're no jack kennedy. >> those are the zingers we were talking about. that first obama shot, that was a mistake. but it was a very rousing speech, right? if you want another measure of just how important wednesday's debate is, consider this. both candidate
job. i'm mitt romney, and i approved this message. >> i think that ad just makes my point, they're tone deaf. good morning, it's thursday, september 27th, as you take a look at a wet times square in new york city. i'm in chicago this morning, but with us in new york city with willie geist, our national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc political analyst, john heilemann. also former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner and nbc news chief affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports." >> we have affairs. >> andrea mitchell. and in washington, for "the politico playbook," executive executor jim vandehei. of course, willie, we've got a lot to talk about. let's start really quickly with the refs! >> they're back. >> we've got some breaking news. i've got to tell you, little kay, she's very excited because she's 9 years old. she plays in the soccer league. and the parents have had to ref over the past couple weeks because those guys have gone off to the nfl, but it's taken care of now. >> that's great news. >> drilled down deep
mitt romney will speak with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu at some point today. president obama has taken heavy criticism not meeting with netanyahu while he was in the states to visit the general assembly. he drew a line making a case that iran is reaching nuclear point of no return but netanyahu laid out his vision for peace in the region. >> we want to see the three great religions that sprang fourth from our region, judaism, christianity and islam coexist in peace and mutual respect. yet the medieval forces of rad call islam who you saw storming american embassies of the middle east, they oppose this. they seek supremacy over all muslims. martha: david lee miller live at the united nations. david, what has been the reaction to that speech? >> reporter: martha one thing worth noting soon after prime minister netanyahu spoke mitt romney issued a statement essentially endorsing and echoing the remarks of the prime minister. romney joined the prime minister's call for a middle east progress of peace and he joined the call to prevent what he called the gravest threat. by th
's be fair here. governor romney has laid out a direction and a vision for the direction of this country. he's not an accountant. he's not going to go line by line as much as you'd like him to do through the budget. but let's hold the president to the same standard and criticize him as well. >>> good morning, it is monday, october 1st. it's october, everybody. welcome to "morning joe." >> yeah, you know who's glad september's over? >> who? >> the jets. holy cow! >> i thought you were going to say mitt romney. with us on set, we have msnbc and "time" senior political editor mark halperin and national affairs editor for "new york" magazine john heilemann. guys. hi, willie. >> hello. >> it's not as bad as being a red sox fan, but if you're a jets fan right now, holy cow! tebow's like, you know, he's getting ready. >> he should have been ready. i don't know why they kept sanchez in the whole game. 103 yards, less than 50% passing, one interception and frankly wasn't close. it was a strange thing to watch. >> it was absolutely brutal. and then, of course, the yankees, man. that playoff race. >> o
and governor mitt romney get ready for a face-off at this week's first debate. >>> plus a couple of big surprises from arnold schwarzenegger who talks candidly about his childhood and the housekeeper. >>> and an epic fail by the united states. after being up for a significant lead, the guys in the ryder cup lose big, berman. >> it was a disaster. complete meltdown. well, still, good morning. and welcome to october, everyone. this is "early start." i'm john berman in washington this morning. >> and i'm sir riesirita simon. >>> president barack obama and mitt romney square off wednesday night in denver. both trying to lower expectations practically gushing over one another, but new jersey governor chris christie is going against the grain and setting the bar high for the republican nominee. >>er time mitt romney has been confronted in this campaign with one of these moments, he has come through in a debate and performed extraordinarily well laying out his vision very clearly and also contrasting himself with his vision with hoomp his opponent was at that time. so i have absolute confidenc
toss upstate, president obama and governor romney both campaigning in the same battleground state today. we'll take you straight to ohio and talk about the strategies there, plus violent protests in two european capitols. latest fall outs from efforts to slash out of control government spending. what the street battles you're seeing across the pond there mean for our economic future. and finding justice for an american couple murdered in a tropical paradise. it's all happening now. and back to the big story of the day, iranian mahmoud ahmadinejad getting set to address the u.n. general assembly. hello, everyone, i'm arthe arthel nevel in for jenna lee. jon: i'm jon scott. mahmoud ahmadinejad delivering what is expected to be his final speech to the u.n. as president of the islamic republic. this caps a week of belligerent receipt particular. on tuesday he called for a new world order, free from what he calls american bullying. all this has governor mitt romney and the republican national committee hit the president hard on foreign policy, releasing a scathing attack being the president'
. thank you. >> governor romney fallen behind in the national polls. new polls out this morning iowa and ohio behind in both. we were laughing about the expectations setting on both sides but, governor romney has to shake things up, wednesday night, doesn't he. >> he is going to. every time mitt romney has been confronted in this campaign with one of these moments he has come through in a debate and performed extraordinarily well, laying out his vision very clearly and also contrasting himself and his vision with whoever his opponent was at that time. i have absolute confidence, george, all you will be shaking your head it is a brand new race. jenna: new jersey governor chris christie, making a bold prediction, how about that? the bold prediction related to the first presidential debate saying governor mitt romney's performance against the president could very well change the entire race. but how important are presidential debates and how much do they really shape the outcome in november? we heard a lot. joining me someone who has done research on polling impact of past debates. larr
for the white house. this coming wednesday, mitt romney and president obama will be squaring off in their very first debate. no political handlers on the stage and no advisors, no 30 seconds commercials. two men going on one on one with the debate posing a crucial test for both candidates. how big are the stakes? joining us is erin mcpike national reporter. good to see you. as the challenger who is admittedly behind in the polls, governor romney is an underdog, does that give him an advantage and if he does well with let's say 50 million people watching, could it reversed direction of his campaign? >> it's very possible. romney campaign has said all along that the debates are going to be very important because it's a chance to see mitt romney square off with president obama and visions for the country. we are starting to see both campaigns to lower expectations for both candidates but this is last chance that romney have to voters take him seriously. >> gregg: i think the trick is for romney at least to come across as krebld and trust worthy and to have the better plan for the economy, that se
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 81 (some duplicates have been removed)

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